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Post by Nuno (Rholor) on Nov 23, 2017 22:52:17 GMT
So, with the release of Xanathar's there has been a lot of discussion surrounding the actual ruling Wizards of the Coast intended to apply on perceiving spellcasting.
Apparently, the intended ruling was: If the spell being cast by the enemy uses Somatic, Material or Verbal components, you as a player can perceive a (!!) spell is being cast. If you wish, you can spend your REACTION to try and identify the spell by succeeding on an Arcana check (as expected) but although interesting, the specifications of this check are beyond the point of this post.
Point of this is, a DM should say: "The enemy is casting a spell" and a character must choose either to identify the spell OR cast counterspell which definitely is NOT what I've been doing. Of course this works both ways, as an enemy also needs to perceive the player's spellcasting.
What are your thought on this?
I personally find this devalues counterspells ALOT, I would maybe find a middle ground where the Arcana check would be a free reaction and then if the player passes the check they can decide whether to counterspell or not.
Does bring a different twist on spellcasting in my opinion as counterspell has been used as a MVP spell for ages... apparently because it was wrongly used!
(Obviously, with good teamwork, the Wizard can Arcana check as a reaction and shout: "COUNTERSPELL!" so the Bard/Sorcerer/Eldritch Knight can do it! - good way of milking a couple reactions out of the party!)
What are your thoughts on this?
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Post by Leocanto on Nov 24, 2017 11:19:27 GMT
For me it'd depend on the size of the group and the number of spellcasters in it.
In my regular group, there is only one spellcaster atm. That's one source of Arcana proficiency and Counterspell. For that group, I'd let them try to identify as a free action and Counterspell as a reaction. If it's a spell they know or have seen a lot then I'd probably not even make them roll for it. "You know Burning Hands, they're casting that". But that's because I think it would be cruel to do it as per the WOTC ruling for this small group of non-casters.
For a larger group with multiple spellcasters, I can see how using the "identify as a reaction" mechanic would make wizard fights a higher-stakes affair where the players have to manage reaction resources as well as spell slots. Still depends on the group of players and characters whether I'd use this.
I'd lean towards not using it unless the Counterspell shenanigans were super OP with the particular group; to the point where it is affecting the group's fun. Then I'd talk to them about trying the new rules to see how that goes.
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Post by The Sergeant / Alisha on Nov 30, 2017 20:26:56 GMT
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Post by andycd on Dec 1, 2017 8:41:44 GMT
I've been interested to see Counterspell be used so effectively in 5th Edition, after it was such a nightmare in 3.5 (was it even in 4th?). I like counterspelling generally, though it can completely negate a Mage Boss.
Given that so many of us already don't spend too much time worrying how long it takes to do a Perception check mid-battle, for instance, I wouldn't worry about an Arcana check action either. I like not rolling for spells they know themselves, though that's a little tricky to DM ('do you have Burning Hands? No? Well roll to see what spell it is')
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Post by Nuno (Rholor) on Dec 1, 2017 9:36:46 GMT
Well ultimately it's all up to the DM I guess! A smart villain can definitely cast a couple-o'-blindnesses before a big time spell = no counterspell.
Get's tricky with non-INT villains... they wouldn't remember such cheesy tactics. I believe a "Identify+Counter = reaction" should be the correct approach.
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